diff --git a/python/tests/test_account.py b/python/tests/test_account.py
index 84bfc98e1..7a7d53db9 100644
--- a/python/tests/test_account.py
+++ b/python/tests/test_account.py
@@ -1210,6 +1210,10 @@ class TestOnlineAccount:
         wait_securejoin_inviter_progress(ac1, 1000)
         ac1._evtracker.get_matching("DC_EVENT_MEMBER_ADDED")
 
+        ch.remove_contact(ac1.get_self_contact())
+        ac2._evtracker.get_matching("DC_EVENT_MEMBER_REMOVED")
+        ac1._evtracker.get_matching("DC_EVENT_MEMBER_REMOVED")
+
     def test_qr_verified_group_and_chatting(self, acfactory, lp):
         ac1, ac2 = acfactory.get_two_online_accounts()
         lp.sec("ac1: create verified-group QR, ac2 scans and joins")
diff --git a/src/chat.rs b/src/chat.rs
index b1772b741..78dc0175f 100644
--- a/src/chat.rs
+++ b/src/chat.rs
@@ -1883,7 +1883,14 @@ pub(crate) fn remove_from_chat_contacts_table(
 
             true
         }
-        Err(_) => false,
+        Err(_) => {
+            warn!(
+                context,
+                "could not remove contact {:?} from chat {:?}", contact_id, chat_id
+            );
+
+            false
+        }
     }
 }
 
@@ -2161,8 +2168,7 @@ pub fn remove_contact_from_chat(
                         "Cannot remove contact from chat; self not in group.".into()
                     )
                 );
-            } else if remove_from_chat_contacts_table(context, chat_id, contact_id) {
-                /* we should respect this - whatever we send to the group, it gets discarded anyway! */
+            } else {
                 if let Ok(contact) = Contact::get_by_id(context, contact_id) {
                     if chat.is_promoted() {
                         msg.viewtype = Viewtype::Text;
@@ -2191,9 +2197,18 @@ pub fn remove_contact_from_chat(
                         });
                     }
                 }
-
+                // we remove the member from the chat after constructing the
+                // to-be-send message. If between send_msg() and here the
+                // process dies the user will have to re-do the action.  It's
+                // better than the other way round: you removed
+                // someone from DB but no peer or device gets to know about it and
+                // group membership is thus different on different devices.
+                // Note also that sending a message needs all recipients
+                // in order to correctly determine encryption so if we
+                // removed it first, it would complicate the
+                // check/encryption logic.
+                success = remove_from_chat_contacts_table(context, chat_id, contact_id);
                 context.call_cb(Event::ChatModified(chat_id));
-                success = true;
             }
         }
     }
diff --git a/src/mimefactory.rs b/src/mimefactory.rs
index 8a370cf57..58217face 100644
--- a/src/mimefactory.rs
+++ b/src/mimefactory.rs
@@ -106,21 +106,6 @@ impl<'a, 'b> MimeFactory<'a, 'b> {
 
             let command = msg.param.get_cmd();
 
-            /* for added members, the list is just fine */
-            if command == SystemMessage::MemberRemovedFromGroup {
-                let email_to_remove = msg.param.get(Param::Arg).unwrap_or_default();
-
-                let self_addr = context
-                    .get_config(Config::ConfiguredAddr)
-                    .unwrap_or_default();
-
-                if !email_to_remove.is_empty()
-                    && !addr_cmp(email_to_remove, self_addr)
-                    && !recipients_contain_addr(&recipients, &email_to_remove)
-                {
-                    recipients.push(("".to_string(), email_to_remove.to_string()));
-                }
-            }
             if command != SystemMessage::AutocryptSetupMessage
                 && command != SystemMessage::SecurejoinMessage
                 && context.get_config_bool(Config::MdnsEnabled)